Interview on Sky News Politics Now

E&OE………

Tom Connell

Cbus, the super fund has been facing controversy lately after allegations of them delaying death payments from super funds, and at other times, not paying them out at all. The Coalition is now targeting the chair, Wayne Swan, saying he needs to explain what happened. Joining the panel now is Shadow Assistant Minister for Home Ownership, Andrew Bragg, who, I think it's fair to say, takes aim at super funds, from time-to-time. Why Wayne Swan? We've heard from the CEO. What's critical about him? Is this a bit of a political angle, because he's a pretty big figure, within the Labor Party?

Senator Bragg

Well, we use the power of the Senate to progress issues in the national interest. We do inquiry, we undertake analysis, we try to get to the bottom of things. In this case, Mr Swan is the Chair of the Fund. The board is responsible under the law for running the fund, and so we have many questions for Mr. Swan.

Tom Connell

He's not going to answer them, though. What's going to happen from here?

Senator Bragg

Well, Mr. Swan has been given a warning that he needs to attend the Senate, and if he doesn't, he will face a summons.

Tom Connell

Okay, we'll watch that space. What about the Coalition broadly on super? Do you think it's fair to say, perhaps the Liberal Party, there's still a strong element within the Liberal Party that would like to pull support for compulsory super?

Senator Bragg

We prioritise home ownership. We believe that people owning a little piece of earth, which is their own, is one of the most important things in our country. For millennials and Gen Z's, that trajectory is not on track, and we think super can really help. That's why it's one of our policies.

Andrew Clennell

All right. But the biggest problem at the moment is the cost of construction. It's the cost of building, it's the labour shortages. Giving a bunch of people a whole lot of money to be able to buy their first home when there are no homes, isn't really the answer, is it?

Senator Bragg

You can't solve this problem without building a lot more houses, and housing construction has collapsed under this government. So, in 2018, we were getting 220,000 houses, and now this year, we're back to 160,000 houses.

Andrew Clennell

What's your answer? What's your answer?

Senator Bragg

We've got a $5 billion supply fund, and we're going to put a 10-year freeze on the NCC, National Construction Code, because we know the cost of construction is out of control.

Tom Connell

Is there something else?

Senator Bragg

It was also putting the CFMEU out of business properly. The fact is, the CFMEU still owns the Cbus super fund. They're nominating directors onto the fund. They're taking dividends out of the fund, but they're not paying fees, so Labor has let these unions and super funds run rampant. We wouldn't let that happen

Andrew Clennell

Are you saying the CFMEU has driven up the cost of construction?

Senator Bragg

30% premium on apartment builds, thanks to the CFMEU. And Labor thinks this is all a big surprise. I mean, everyone knew that these guys were up to no good, and Labor pretends like...

Andrew Clennell

What practises are they following that's causing that?

Senator Bragg

They're inflating the cost of construction by putting bogus workers onto work sites, all sorts of different quirks and perks that they have. As you know, it's been well-documented by the Nine Newspapers’ investigations.

Olivia Caisley

You mentioned millennials and Gen Zs. At the next election, they're going to outnumber baby boomers in each of the states and territories for the first time. What are the Liberals doing to try and target these younger generational cohorts? What policies do you have for them?

Senator Bragg

Housing is my area, so obviously, I talk about that. I mean, opening up super is a key policy because for many people without access to the bank of Mum and Dad - that's the biggest pool of capital. So giving them access to that's one. We're also looking at lending rules. So, this week, we're putting down a report, looking at finding ways to bend the scale for first-time buyers through lending policy. So, that's two good examples that I think we look forward to talking about during the campaign.

Olivia Caisley

And more broadly, do you think that the Liberal Party on a whole has done enough to rehabilitate its image following the defeat of the last election?

Senator Bragg

Yeah, I think people will look at our economic record, will look at what we're putting forward in terms of practical policies, particularly on things like housing, as attractive, because everyone knows the squeeze on housing is real, whether you're a renter or a mortgagee. I think these practical ideas around lending and super are very important.

Kieran Gilbert

Last time we spoke, you said you were looking at increasing that amount that you were going to allow, if you win the election, people to access from their super. Have you landed on a number yet?

Senator Bragg

It's still under consideration. At the moment, the policy is $50,000. If we had an election on Saturday, it would be $50,000.

Kieran Gilbert

But you might - it sounds like it's a work in progress - work under consideration. Is your hope that you bump it up to take to the election at a higher level?

Senator Bragg

It's a possibility. I mean, $50,000 would make a real difference. But obviously, if people have more than that, then I think that the most important form of savings is actually a home. So, we want to try and prioritise that.

Tom Connell

And whatever that is, will you model what that will do on house prices? Because it will be open to everybody on that certain date before anything you can do for supply takes effect. There's a lag effect on house supply.

Senator Bragg

Well, of course and that's why getting the supply is critical. You cannot solve this problem…

Tom Connell

But it won't be in place. Will you model what it would do to house prices?

Senator Bragg

Well, of course. But you're talking about a multi-trillion dollar market here, right? You're talking about an immaterial change in the overall market.

Tom Connell

You said before you've done the modelling, you made up your mind on that?

Senator Bragg

But we know that it's a multi-trillion dollar market, right? It's three or four trillion dollars. And you'll be talking about tens or maybe hundreds of billions of dollars.

Tom Connell

But all towards one particular market, too. And you say it's maybe it's only a few hundred.

Senator Bragg

Tom, there's no way it would be material, right? In assessing materiality, as you know, it's got to be more than 10%.

Andrew Clennell

Okay, Cash had some strong comments to say about the Bali Nine, and really whether that was the priority to get the rest of them back. What's your personal view on that?

Senator Bragg

Well, I mean, there's obviously a process they're facing in Indonesia, and I don't propose to add my personal view here - these are matters that should be discussed between the governments, and I think there's a degree of sensitivity here.

Andrew Clennell

Do you think the Prime Minister should have lobbied for their release directly to the leader of Indonesia?

Senator Bragg

I think the Prime Minister should always put the interests of Australians first, but that should be balanced against what is going to be in the long-term interests of that very important bilateral relationship.

Tom Connell

You said, just to go back, material, because it'll be less than 10%?

Senator Bragg

It's going to be more than 10%.

Tom Connell

If it's 9%, prices go up 9% just because of this policy, then that's immaterial and it doesn't matter?

Senator Bragg

You've still got to look at how many houses you can get. As I say, we're down to 160,000 houses as you underlaid, right? The same number that we had in 1989, when the population was more like 17 or 18 million people. So, you've got to get the housing construction up to at least a quarter of as million.

Tom Connell

I understand that. But you can't do that straight away. The policy comes in straight away. So, you're saying as long as it's not 10%, then it's fine.

Senator Bragg

But why can't you build more houses?

Tom Connell

Well, you can't do it in a day. The policy that's going to come in, you won't have built your extra houses. You can't do it in two months. It's not possible. A house takes more than two months to build.

Senator Bragg

If you have a more practical approach to getting houses built - I mean, the Housing Australia…

Tom Connell

You can do it in two months?

Senator Bragg

Well, the Housing Australia Future Fund, for example, is a big government approach, where Labor spent billions on bureaucracies, and they're building fewer houses than we built. Vastly fewer.

Tom Connell

All right. Not sure you can do it in two months, though.

Senator Bragg

I'm confident that we can deploy practical policies that will get houses built and first-time buyers into them.

Tom Connell

Andrew Bragg, thanks for your time.

Senator Bragg

Thanks.

[Ends]