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Interview with Andy Park on ABC RN Drive

Authors
Senator Andrew Bragg
Liberal Senator for New South Wales
Publication Date,
October 16, 2023
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October 16, 2023

![](https://uploads- ssl.webflow.com/6080bc3bbbffd33dc6ae5d81/63cf4b4560f8f45345d23281_Rnlogo.png) ‍ ‍ **Andy Park** Well, joining me now is Andrew Bragg, a New South Wales Liberal Senator who campaigned for a 'Yes' vote. Welcome to you. **Senator Bragg** Hi, Andy. **Andy Park** Do you share the criticisms levelled at the Prime Minister, by your leader, Peter Dutton? **Senator Bragg** Well, I think the main issue here is that the government took the referendum to the people, and there wasn't enough centre ground because the government had refused to constructively engage with other parties. And that manifested in a way by the government not having a long-running parliamentary committee to develop up the models for an amendment. It refused to release an Exposure Draft Bill. But fundamentally, the government refused to negotiate with other parties and to find a compromised position. **Andy Park** I mean, it was an election promise by the Prime Minister. Do you think that he should have postponed it or made it a second-term issue? And if so, wouldn't your side of politics pinged him for breaking a promise? **Senator Bragg** Well, but the point is that there were many different ways that the issue of recognition and the Voice could have been progressed. There needed to be a centrist approach, just like we saw with marriage equality six years ago, for there to be a successful referendum. And unfortunately, the government didn't try hard enough to work with other people that would have been necessary to carry this into ground. ##### **Andy Park** The polls took a dive south when the Liberal Party decided to oppose the Voice and also the Nationals. So, what role does your side of politics have in the failure of the Voice? **Senator Bragg** Well, the government ran the process. It was their process which developed a defective product which was ultimately not supported by the public. Now, the opposition is the opposition. We offered to engage with them, the government, that is. And most of our overtures were rebuffed. The reality is that people like Julian Leeser and I tried to work with the government, and the government wasn't interested in working with anyone else. So therefore, their product and their process was defective. **Andy Park** Do you stand by your call back in July for the referendum to be delayed until 2024? Is that what would have changed to this result in your favour? **Senator Bragg** Well, I think a lot of Australians are very hurt and frustrated about the weekend's result. That's why I suggested that there should have been a recalibration back in July because I could see that it was heading for the cliff. Now, there would have been a lot of support for recognition. There may have been a way to have developed the Voice in a way that could have captured the centre ground, but the government's process was so poor. I mean, it was effectively a case of maladministration and hubris, which I believe is the diagnosis here, Andy. **Andy Park** The Prime Minister had been clear all along that he took the model that he was asked for by the Referendum Working Group. Do you think they should share in some of the blame for the failure of the Voice vote, particularly on the question? And should they have compromised as well? **Senator Bragg** We told the government that it was all well and good to have the Referendum Working Group, but he should have run a parallel parliamentary committee with all interested Members and Senators able to offer their views about what sort of amendment might be viable. Now, ultimately, the government didn't do that, and I think that really diminished the process. I think to win a referendum, it's very difficult. You need to make sure you can capture that centre ground. I just felt like they didn't really try and do that. **Andy Park** Peter Dutton seems to have walked away from his commitment to hold a second referendum on Indigenous recognition. He says he believes the Australian public is done with the referendum process for some time. Are you worried by that? **Senator Bragg** I don't think the Australian people want to go through another referendum in the short term. The key point, though, is reconciliation is still alive. We need to make sure that we find ways to work together and to listen to one another if we are to solve the nation's great challenges. And reconciliation with Australia's first people, I believe, is a high priority for many Australians. **Andy Park** The Shadow Indigenous Affairs Minister, Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, says the federal government would be wrong to try and progress other elements of the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Do you agree with Senator Price? **Senator Bragg** Well, I'm not sure what exactly the government is proposing to do next. The Uluru Statement has talked about there being a process for agreement making. It talks about other elements of truth-telling. I mean let's see what the government want to do next. They're now in the driver's seat. I've never had a problem with the idea of there being things like multiple names for different places. I've never had a problem with local agreement making. I think the onus now is on the government, though, to pick up the pieces. **Andy Park** It's fourteen minutes past five. Andrew Bragg is New South Wales Liberal Senator. He was a campaigner for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament. Peter Dutton has entrusted Senator Price and Senator Kerrynne Liddle with reviewing Coalition Indigenous policy. Do you have any faith in their ability to progress this conversation? Given what your side of politics sees in the electorate, which is an unwillingness to continue this conversation? **Senator Bragg** Well, I think the reality is the government have basically run this agenda into the ground. That's the starting point. So, whatever the Coalition can do that's constructive, I think, will be welcomed by most Australians. Both of my colleagues in the Senate have a wealth of personal experience that I believe they can bring to bear here. But we need to make sure that we are continuing to put reconciliation and practical measures to achieve reconciliation in our policies. And I look forward to the work that my colleagues will do. **Andy Park** But wouldn't you be worried about the level of collaboration coming from Indigenous leaders after this loss? **Senator Bragg** Well, there were a number of Indigenous leaders that supported the ‘Yes’, a number of Indigenous leaders supported the ‘No’. I mean, the idea that Indigenous people are completely homogeneous, I think, is misplaced. I mean, everyone's got their own opinion. I'm sure that we will work with the grassroots and Indigenous leaders to get the best possible policies. I mean, I'm personally very committed to spending my time in public office in a constructive way on reconciliation. **Andy Park** What about the results, which showed very clear 'No' territories between the city and the country? This divide, really, where you have very small enclaves of 'Yes' voting and some majority of regional seats. In fact, all of the regional seats, according to my reading of the map, who voted no, what has to be done to get these communities behind any policy that aims to progress Indigenous rights? ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, I don't think we're going to have a referendum in the short to medium term. So, I don't think we're going to be asking the public to vote on these issues. ##### **Andy Park** But my question goes to the divide between over what to be done on Indigenous affairs between the city and the country. I mean, will this be a thorny issue for the Coalition or Labor coming to the next election? ##### **Senator Bragg** I mean, if you reflect on the experience on the marriage equality postal survey, there was a very big difference between this and the Indigenous Voice in that there was proximity. So, most Australians knew someone from the LGBT community, but most Australians don't know any Indigenous people. So that's why it was always going to be a very high degree of difficulty here. And I think that is going to be an ongoing problem that if you're wanting to engage on these issues, the reality is most Australians have no lived experience on these matters. ##### **Andy Park** We'll have to leave it there. Andrew Bragg, New South Wales Liberal Senator. Appreciate your time this afternoon. ##### **Andrew Bragg** Thanks, Andy. **[ENDS]** ‍

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