Interview with Chris O'Keefe on 2GB Drive

 ‍ **Subjects:** Super fund payments ‍ E&OE……… ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Senator Andrew Bragg. He's crunched the numbers on this one. He joins me live. Senator, thanks for your time. ##### **Senator Bragg** Yeah, how are you? Yeah, how are you doing? ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Talk us through it. ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, basically, we know this information because the funds have to publish how much money they give to unions. Now, the Labor Party tried to cancel this transparency when they were elected, but the Senate stopped them. And so as a result, we now know that almost $40 million in the last financial year was given by the largest super funds to unions and co. So it's a huge amount of money when you consider that the funds are supposed to be funding retirements, not the Labor Party. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** When it says marketing campaigns, have you got any specific examples? ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, I mean, they are giving $21 million to Industry Super Australia so it can lobby against any changes that might be made by a Parliament to the Super scheme. For example, the Parliament might want to open up super for first home buyers. It might want to open up super when there's an economic catastrophe like it happened in COVID. And so the members, money is being used to ensure that super is hermetically sealed, even though that might not be in interest of those workers. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** But is that all that surprising, given Industry Super is entitled to lobby on behalf of its own interests, right? ##### **Senator Bragg** Yeah, sure. It's a question of degree. And when you're looking at $40 million in the last financial year alone, it's a lot of money. It's a lot of retirements. And the the reality is that there are laws which are designed to prevent this from happening. Now, I think that Labor could be asking lots of questions to these funds about why they're giving so much money to unions. For example, Cbus has given $4.2 in the last year, $4.2 million, that is. And now Wayne Swan is the President of the Fund and President of the Labor Party. So I think he would be an easy person to ask the question to. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Do the Industry Super Funds give any money, any donations to employer groups? ##### **Senator Bragg** Look, I'm sure that they do. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** So what's the problem? ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, there's no problem with supporting a union or an employer group, but its got to be done on a financial, on the best financial interests basis. So I'm not sure all these financial arrangements are in the best interests of members, particularly when some of the smallest funds are making some of the biggest payments for so-called directors fees and for services rendered. So I think in many cases, they're just sweetheart deals. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** But if they're getting 6, 8, 10% returns for the members, do the members really care? ##### **Senator Bragg** Yeah, but the point is the system is supposed to be for the members. It's not supposed to be propping up unions that have declining revenue basis because not many Australians are members of unions anymore. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** But they're also propping up employer groups. ##### **Senator Bragg** And that's not right. I mean, the point of the funds is to look after the workers, not to be propping up anyone else. So I just think, because they're able to do this, because there's not much transparency or hasn't been much transparency, they've been allowed to get away with it. And now I think the quantum is really of great concern. That's why APRA, the prudential regulator, is investigating some of the funds. But I think the Government, Labor, Stephen Jones, could be doing a lot more to protect workers' interests. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Andrew Bragg, appreciate you jumping on. Thanks so much. **[Ends]**