INTERVIEW WITH GARY ADSHEAD ON 6PR

Subjects: Home Ownership, Super for Housing

E&OE………

Gary Adshead

Is it becoming impossible to get on the ladder? So would you like, if you're in that right bracket, to access superannuation to get yourself moving? Let's ask the question of Andrew Bragg, who's a Liberal Senator who is certainly pushing a new way of looking at this in what appears to be a policy of the Coalition as they head into the 2025 election. Thanks for your time, Andrew.

Senator Bragg

Gary, how you going?

Gary Adshead

So I know that obviously, Scott Morrison talked about being able to access fifty grand from super as a deposit. You want to go the whole nine yards.

Senator Bragg

Well, Gary, the key determinant of your success in retirement is not your superannuation balance; it's your home ownership status. What we're now starting to see is generations of Australians, millennials, Gen Zs, who are not going to be able to get into a home. And so one thing we need to look to use is peoples super, because that might be their biggest pool of capital and their only opportunity to actually get onto the ladder.

Gary Adshead

So your statement there is that you believe that the measure of success at the time of your retirement is your home, not your superannuation. People might argue about that. I mean, I probably argue to a degree that the most the important thing that I have would be my superannuation at this point.

Senator Bragg

Do you own your own house?

Gary Adshead

Well, I do. Well, the bank does, but I'm contributing.

Senator Bragg

You got a mortgage, yeah that's right.

Gary Adshead

Yeah.

Senator Bragg

What I'm saying to you is there's a whole lot of Australians who are never going to have a mortgage because they can never get onto the ladder. They can't buy a flat. And if you're a younger person, particularly if you're having a HECS debt, and you've got to pay 11% super, and given all the other costs associated with housing, you'll never get there. So that's why we think it's an important part of the equation. Super is not a silver bullet for everyone, but it can certainly help people who have no other means of pulling together their deposit.

Gary Adshead

So in terms of modelling, I mean, is it something that you're looking at if you go to an election with this as an absolute policy? You model how many people? Because, of course, would there be such strain under the superannuation system that it could cause major problems?

Senator Bragg

Well, the superannuation industry has been very good at propaganda, and its been very good at trying to condition the Australian people that super is the only way you can save for retirement. But the reality is, Australians are very smart people, and they know that there are many different ways you can achieve a comfortable and safe retirement. Culturally, Australians have always clung to home ownership. That's because there are more than just economic benefits of owning a house. Robert Menzies, who started the Liberal Party, talked about the right of every Australian to own a little bit of a piece of Earth. But look, the economic benefits are actually quite clear that if you use your super to buy a flat, you're much better off over the longer term than if you leave your money in super and you rent for a long time.

Gary Adshead

Would there be any age requirement around this? Would you cap it at any point?

Senator Bragg

I'm not a big believer in a huge amount of regulation and the big nanny state. I mean, Labor and the unions love the way super is designed now because they're able to pilfer it and send money off to the unions and all their other best friends. But my view is, look, super is the people's money. There's currently a law which sends it off to the super funds for them to pilfer for 40 years. And I think many Australians would rather have their own money to be able to purchase their own first home.

Gary Adshead

So just explain, you are going to absolutely go to the election with a policy that says; anyone, if it's for a home ownership, can access any amount of their superannuation?

Senator Bragg

Well, right now, we have a policy which says you could take $50,000 out of your super. And there's currently a Senate Inquiry, which is looking at whether that could be expanded and liberalised and made easier for people. So that's an ongoing process.

Gary Adshead

But there's no thought in your mind that the system might well collapse with people taking their money out left, right, and centre?

Senator Bragg

The system doesn't work. Basically, most people are still on the pension...

Gary Adshead

You say that to someone like who's 58 now, me. The system works for me because I can see where I'll be in about five years if I ever get to pull the pin. I mean, it does work. It saved me an enormous amount of money that I wouldn't have normally saved.

Senator Bragg

Well, that's great.

Gary Adshead

That's setting me up.

Senator Bragg

But you don't have to force everyone into the same rigid thinking...

Gary Adshead

But it won't work unless that's how it works. It won't work unless people abide by a system, which is that we invest our money through superannuation schemes, and those schemes are successful on the back of the money that's going in from employers and our own contributions. I mean, that's what it is.

Senator Bragg

But that's actually not right, because the way it works now is the super funds can invest in any house. Your super can invest in any home except your own. So it's perverse logic. So at the moment, the big super funds are using the money they've got to invest in what's called Build to Rent housing so they can build and rent all the houses in Australia out to us like we're serfs. So effectively, their agenda is to try and take over the housing stock and what I'm saying is we need to have a better conversation than that. We need to look to use people's own money for their own purposes rather than for big super and big unions. And so our policy very simply is to say, well, it's your money, and you can use it for a first home if you want to. You don't have to. It's an option.

Gary Adshead

It's a fascinating debate. I really appreciate you coming on, Andrew. Thanks very much for that.

Senator Bragg

No worries, cheers.

[Ends]