Interview with Hamish Macdonald on ABC Radio Sydney

Interview with Hamish Macdonald on ABC Radio Sydney

20 February 2025

Subjects: Housing Australia Future Fund failures, housing targets

E&OE………

Hamish Macdonald

Senator Andrew Bragg is the Opposition's Assistant Spokesman for Home Ownership. Good morning to you.

Senator Bragg

Good morning, Hamish. How are you?

Hamish Macdonald

From your point of view, what's wrong with this scheme? Why do you deem it to be a failure?

Senator Bragg

It's taken the government 18 months to just sign a few contracts, let alone put a shovel in the ground or assemble some bricks and mortar. I think it shows that the government's been good at building bureaucracies and not houses during this term of Parliament; where they have presided over a massive collapse in housing construction, which has made the housing crisis so much worse.

Hamish Macdonald

What would you do in government? There's an election within months?

Senator Bragg

Yeah, we've announced a significant supply policy of $5 billion, which would build last mile infrastructure, so roads, sewerage, water, which would unlock more houses. We don't think that governments alone can solve this crisis. As you've seen, this government's had three years, and all they've been able to do is assemble bureaucracy, and that is, I think, an important lesson for everyone to consider.

Hamish Macdonald

Clare O'Neil, the Housing Minister, though, says it's hard to take the Liberals seriously on this, she says, when they talk about social and affordable homes. The facts are Labor's building 55,000 over the next five years. Peter Dutton has no plan to build any. On the HAFF, which is the scheme you're talking about, she says the Liberals actually are complaining about a delay in policy that they caused?

Senator Bragg

Well, we built more houses than this government. On average, we built 190,000 houses a year. This government will only get 170,000 houses a year on average...

Hamish Macdonald

But did you cause the delay in delivering the policy?

Senator Bragg

But irrespective of whether we believe in this particular policy or not, Hamish, they've had 18 months to build a house, and they spent more on executive salaries than they have on housing...

Hamish Macdonald

But you acknowledge the delay in the policy delivery...

Senator Bragg

They've had 18 months. It's massive maladministration...

Hamish Macdonald

You acknowledge, though, that the Coalition played a role in how long it's taken to get this actually moving?

Senator Bragg

Of course, we don't support this policy, but the point is it's massive maladministration and emblematic of the government's failure to get houses built in Australia. So they've led a million people into the country in the last, the last two years and presided over a massive collapse in housing construction; including their own government fund, which can't even build a house.

Hamish Macdonald

But your plan is not to build any?

Senator Bragg

Our plan is to build hundreds of thousands of houses, and we believe that the private economy; builders, traders, developers are required to build houses. There's no way the government itself can solve the nation's housing crisis. That's what this government has tried to do, and it's been a complete failure.

Hamish Macdonald

I note that the Urban Task Force Chief, Tom Forrest, has acknowledged the issues and the delays, but he says he disagrees with your plan to cut the scheme. To quote him, he says: "we've now got to the point where there are large numbers of contracts that are about to be signed. This is not the time to stop the process." You'd actually be halting the delivery of new homes, wouldn't you?

Senator Bragg

Well, I don't know. I'm not sure how many contracts have been signed, Hamish. I’ve asked for this information to be made public. The government hasn't provided it so far. I asked Penny Wong about it in the Senate last week, and they were very evasive. Look, the Prime Minister announced 13,000 of these houses last September. As you said in your intro, they've only done contracts for 800 of them. Now, some of these contracts, or principally, seem to have gone to the big super funds. They want the big super funds to become corporate landlords, which is a sick distortion of the Australian dream, I think.

Hamish Macdonald

I guess I'm just I'm interested in this from the point of view of folks living here in Sydney. We feel the housing crisis acutely. The Urban Task Force is saying there's a lot of contracts ready to go. Now, totally understand you're saying you don't know how many are ready to go? But you are saying you'd stop this in its tracks. Why not just stick with the plan but fix it? Why not improve it if you're in government?

Senator Bragg

Well, there's no transparency to start with, so we don't even know what we're dealing with. All we know from one LinkedIn post is the HAFF or Housing Australia has contracted with a front for HESTA and AustralianSuper to build some houses in Melbourne and a few other places. We actually don't know what we're dealing with right now, Hamish. If we had some transparency, I might be able to give you a your answer. But unfortunately, the government doesn't always comply with its transparency obligations in the Senate.

Hamish Macdonald

1300 222 702, if you've got a view on this. Do you think Australia should stick with this plan, with this help in Sydney? Or do you think actually 18 months is long enough? If it's not working, scrap the scheme, 1300 222, 702. I'm speaking with Senator Andrew Bragg. We've been talking about something that you would cut in government. Can you give us an idea of what else the Coalition would cut if it wins government at the election? We've been struggling to get detail on specific cuts beyond the view that clearly exists in the Opposition that there are cuts to be made?

Senator Bragg

We've flagged that we think that the government has expanded the public service significantly in Canberra and that the bureaucracy is growing and growing. Now, I can tell you that there's the Housing Australia Future Fund, which has built no houses. There's a National Reconstruction Fund, which hasn't invested very much at all. There are other big boondoggle funds that the government has established, and we don't think that those are appropriate for Australia.

Hamish Macdonald

But which ones? Would you cut them entirely or would you trim them?

Senator Bragg

The National Reconstruction Fund, for example...

Hamish Macdonald

That would go?

Senator Bragg

We will abolish that.

Hamish Macdonald

In terms of the public service, I know Jane Hume was talking to us yesterday mentioning 36,000 jobs was too much. But how many would you get rid of?

Senator Bragg

Well, that's something that we will work through.

Hamish Macdonald

But you will be up front with voters here in Sydney before the election about how many?

Senator Bragg

Well, of course. I mean, under the obligations we have to the Australian people, there will be fully audited budget statements provided under the Charter of Budget Honesty. People will be able to make their own judgments on that. But the main point is that we think that the bureaucracy is too large, particularly in Canberra, and that these funds, the Housing Fund and the Reconstruction Fund and the like, they haven't been successful vehicles. We need to focus on getting the private economy to solve some of the challenges like housing. You need to get builders, tradespeople, and developers to solve the housing crisis, not some bureaucrats in Canberra who seem to spend more time shuffling papers than they do on building houses.

Hamish Macdonald

Senator Andrew Bragg, obviously, some of those details get released very late in the piece in an election. I think a couple of days before we actually vote. Do you think there's a case to be made for actually getting all of this stuff out in the open earlier so that we voting here in Sydney have a better handle on what we're actually choosing between?

Senator Bragg

I think that's absolutely reasonable. That's why I'm trying to get the information out about these contracts, which apparently the government has signed in relation to housing, but they won't tell us, even though they announced it. The Prime Minister of Australia announced these 13,000 houses back in September, and we can't get any information about the contracting arrangements at all. Apparently, the tendering process has been an absolute shambles, and a lot of the community housing providers say that they've been pushed out of the way for the industry super fund so they can own all the houses. But we can't get any official transparency here from this government.

Hamish Macdonald

You got to let these programmes take their course? You can't get the funding up, the contract signed, the homes delivered in 18 months?

Senator Bragg

Well, the government said they would build 250,000 houses a year, and they've collapsed housing construction from 190,000 on average down to 170,000. While they've let a million people in over the last two years, they've presided over a massive collapse in construction, and their own bureaucratic fund itself hasn't built a single house. That's the record. Maybe they need more time. I don't know. But I think ultimately, that's a judgement the Australian people will get to make in the next couple of months.

Hamish Macdonald

Andrew Bragg, really appreciate you coming on this morning. Thank you very much.

Senator Bragg

Thanks, Hamish.

Hamish Macdonald

That's Senator Andrew Bragg.

[Ends]

‍