Interview with Kieran Gilbert on Sky News Live

03 April 2023

Subjects: Voice Referendum, Aston By-election ‍

E&OE……… ‍ ‍

Kieran Gilbert

Let's go live to Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg now, one of the members of the Liberal Party Room who wants a Voice to Parliament to succeed. Andrew Bragg, thanks for your time. So this meeting on Wednesday of the Liberal Party Room, has that been confirmed now? Have you been advised that's happening?

Senator Bragg

Yes, it has, Kieran. And I think the speech given by Julian Leeser today has nicely framed some of the outstanding issues that are required to be addressed by the government, particularly for those of us that are inclined to recommend a 'yes' vote to the public when the referendum comes later this year.

Kieran Gilbert

When you say that, for you, what are the key issues? Is it that regional representation? Is it a clarity around Executive Government or removing reference to Executive Government from any referendum?

Senator Bragg

Well, the most important question now is the wording that's going to be put to the people. Because that's the only thing that will be nailed down. Everything else will come and go. I mean future laws will come and go, but The Constitution will be there permanently. And we want to make sure that the Executive issue is addressed in a way that there can be engagement with the Executive, but that is done in a way which is safe for our system of government and isn't going to bung up the work. So I've been careful not to take a position on this, but I understand that it's an important issue, and we finally get to do a review. Now we have this committee set up.

Kieran Gilbert

And is your instinct to say to the Party Room on Wednesday, 'let it be a conscience vote in the end.' Or do you see it as not necessarily something that needs to be landed on because it is a referendum? It's an individual choice anyway. Is that going to be your argument on Wednesday?

Senator Bragg

Well, I don't think the term conscience vote applies here because no one is suggesting that the Liberal Party would oppose the referendum happening. I mean, I think we'll be voting for the legislation in the Parliament just as we voted for the Machinery Bill because we want the Australian people to have their say. Now, whether we are 'yes' voters or 'no' voters, we want the people to have their say. So I don't think that's in question. I guess what's in question is whether Liberals are free to campaign 'yes' or 'no'. And obviously, the historical precedent here is on Same-Sex Marriage in 2017 and on the Republic in 99, there were Liberals for 'yes', Liberals for 'no' campaign. So that is the starting position I would think.

Kieran Gilbert

Julian Leeser at the Press Club said he believes that the clause, as it's currently drafted, creates doubt and uncertainty. He says, 'why allow room for debate about whether a particular government entity is or is not part of Executive Government.' Would you feel more comfortable advocating a 'yes' vote and voting yes yourself if there were to be more clarity from the Government on issues like that?

Senator Bragg

Absolutely. I think Julian is right to identify that as a major sticking point for many people. And the committee, which is now being set up, needs to seriously interrogate that particular point. We need to understand all the claims and counterclaims that have been made about that wording. We now have the benefit of being able to cross examine all the key legal experts in Australia as part of this committee process. That is critical, and we now have six weeks to do that work.

Kieran Gilbert

In terms of the debate within the Party, how would you characterise support for the Voice or otherwise? The reason I ask you that is because the polling suggests a majority of Australian's support a Voice. Certainly the polling to this point, who knows what happens on referendum day. And then in the context of the Aston by-election, where a fierce swing in a heartland seat against the Liberal Party was seen on Saturday?

Senator Bragg

Look, I don't think it's a popular agenda inside the Liberal Party, but there is a large group of supporters that would support a Voice if the wording was right. And I think that's worth keeping in mind, that there are a lot of people who still vote for the Liberal Party across Australia and including in Aston. And we want to be able to recommend a 'yes' vote to people who are inclined to consider voting for the Liberal Party. But I'm like many other Australians, in that I want the wording to be safe and secure for our institutions that have served the country so well over the past hundred and twenty years. So it's a really key issue. I wished we had had this process last year, but we're now having it now, so we have to make the best of what we have.

Kieran Gilbert

Julian Leeser spoke about his long running support for the idea, working alongside Pat Dodson as part of various efforts to try and build momentum towards a recognition and subsequently, as we see now, this Voice to Parliament. But do you think there's any sign the government is willing to come to you, at least some way, and Leeser, in getting more Liberal and more conservative voters over the line here, who, as you say, will be more comfortable voting 'yes' if these amendments were to happen?

Senator Bragg

I think if you have a bunch of Liberal parliamentarians recommending a 'yes' vote, then you have a much better chance of winning the referendum. So I would have thought that the government would look closely at the report that the committee will make in six weeks from now. And I think it's imperfect, but it is important that they've given us these six months, sorry, six weeks now to do this body of work. And frankly, this should have happened last year, but it's happening now. So we have a lot of work to do.

Kieran Gilbert

So specifically now, just on the politics of the Liberal Party and the fact that Aston was lost on Saturday, what needs to be the lessons learned here?

Senator Bragg

We need to have more economic policies which are differentiated, and those might be policies on housing, on emissions reduction, for example. That is key to our ongoing offering. And I've always believed that we shouldn't be dragged into the margins on culture war issues. That's always been my view. I think some of the marginal issues that can sometimes be profiled inside Parliament, massively detract from our brand.

Kieran Gilbert

Can Peter Dutton regroup? Can he provide the reset you need?

Senator Bragg

Definitely. And I think he has a high level of personal credibility and warmth. I think he has a very strong foundation as a person and as a leader. And having secured almost the first year of getting the Party unified, I think the next year can be seen as a year where you develop more policy. I think we are where we are in the cycle. I think we're in a reasonable position, but we have to take our own chances now to develop a few policies and sell them to the Australian people.

Kieran Gilbert

Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg appreciate your time.

Senator Bragg

Thanks Kieran. ‍

[Ends]