Interview with Tom Connell on Sky News

Subjects: MYEFO, Nuclear Energy Policy, Cbus' Birthday Spending

E&OE………

Tom Connell
The politics is ever constant. Joining me now is Shadow Assistant Minister for Home Ownership, Andrew Bragg. Thank you for your time. So, MYEFO, we're getting a bit of an indication of where things are at. The headline is $100 billion will come out of forward tax receipts. This is all to do with mining. Would you agree this aspect, I mean, this was a big gift to Labor early in its term, it's been taken away, that this is essentially a big external factor, even if you get the trappings of power, this figure won't change?

Senator Bragg
Well, I think we've seen a significant deterioration in the nation's finances and we will see four years of deficits. There'll be very deep deficits. And I think that's because the government has prioritised the public sector over growing the private economy. And now the public sector is having to meet, for example, a very significant wages bill which has exploded under this government.

Tom Connell
What spending would you not go ahead with when we're talking MYEFO? What should be stopped right now in your view?

Senator Bragg
Well, there's $20 or $30 billion of excess public sector expenditure now that exists because of this government's judgments to expand the size of the public sector. So we wouldn't be proceeding with that. There are a number of other large...

Tom Connell
So sorry, $30 billion cut to the public sector?

Senator Bragg
There's a very significant growth that's occurred, $20 or $30 billion over the course of this Parliament into the size of the public sector. So there's also, in addition to that very significant growth in the number of bureaucracies. There have been, uh, boondoggle funds like the National Reconstruction Fund, the Housing Fund. I mean, these are not things that we would proceed with.

Tom Connell
Okay. Um, I want to talk to you about nuclear energy policy as well. It was outlined on Friday. One of the headlines out of this is 40% less energy according to the Coalition compared to Labor's plan is what we're being told will be needed. Is there a plan B? This is obviously a prediction. AEMO has said there are two possibilities. That this is a genuine possibility. We might need this much energy. What if we need more? What's the plan B for the Coalition?

Senator Bragg
Well, as you know, when you're costing these very long run policies, there are very different assumptions that can be used by the government agencies, AEMO or CSIRO or private sector economists. I think the main point is that we are projecting a significant increase in energy use over the long term. And we think that we can do a better job of providing that stability and that price certainty that people are looking for after, frankly too long, where governments have been playing with the energy market and now it looks like you know, Frankenstein's child basically because of Labor's very significant intervention in this last two and a half years.

Tom Connell
You're about to make a really significant intervention and part of that is saying, you know, you don't want too many renewables in the grid. So again, the question is, what happens if your prediction is not right around how much energy we need? Would you change tack? Would you say, okay, EV take up is higher, green hydrogen looks like it might take off. Would you then change tack and switch to the path of more energy needed?

Senator Bragg
Well, Tom, you always respond to events as they unfold, but what we're trying to do is to fix what has become an absolute nightmare. I mean, the government promised they'd cut energy bills, they promised a significant discount would be there for Australians, but in fact Australians have found that energy prices have skyrocketed under this government. And so the intervention is proportionate to the problem we're trying to solve here, which is to get energy prices down because we know how crucial that is for the economy's growth over the long term.

Tom Connell
I want to ask you finally about super. It's a bit of a cause de jure not only of the day, something you're very passionate about. Cbus, reports today that they had what was described as a training day, but also turned into a 40th birthday bash. I think it was 387 charged, $387,000, I should say. What do you make of this? Is it sort of hard to pin down because if there's training involved of employees, well, that would be a legitimate use of money.

Senator Bragg
Well, Wayne Swan's Cbus has spent almost $400 grand on a birthday party for itself. If this was Westpac or the CBA, Jim Chalmers would be jumping all over their heads. Jim Chalmers has been silent because Mr Swan is his mentor. And I think the regulator needs to look very closely at this because I don't see how this passes the pub test or the Best Financial Interests Duty test.

Tom Connell
So the Prudential Regulator is looking at Cbus in particular around spending because money spent has to be in the best interest of members. If the Coalition take power, would anything change about that? Are you comfortable with the overall structure and, uh, if you like, regulation of superannuation?

Senator Bragg
We are very comfortable with the test, the Best Financial Interests Duty. It's very clear. We drafted it in government, but I have concerns about how it has been enforced, and if the regulator cannot enforce the law as it stands, then we would need to find people who are prepared to enforce the law in a black letter fashion.

Tom Connell
So clean out APRA, that's what you'll do?

Senator Bragg
Well, if the regulator isn't going to enforce the law, then you need to find people who will be prepared to do that.

Tom Connell
Are you saying it's not enforcing the law right now?

Senator Bragg
Well, if I'm a super fund and I give myself a $400,000 birthday party, I don't see how that passes the Best Financial Interests Test. Don't forget, there's a reverse onus of proof here, so they need to document exactly how the expenditure of funds is in the Best Financial Interest of members. I don't see that happening.

Tom Connell
Okay, but you've outlined other examples before this today. So has APRA failed the test before? Do you believe it's not adequately regulating, doing its job when it comes to superannuation?

Senator Bragg
I think at the moment they have some test cases that they are working on, and I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, but this $400,000 birthday party really is pulling the leg, I think, of the Australian people. We asked Mr Swan about this at the hearing, he didn't know, and he's taken it on notice. Information is new, only was revealed yesterday. So let's see what APRA does.

Tom Connell
Okay, so, so, the test from here on in. There are several issues they're looking at now. And you want to see if you're essentially watching closely, and if you believe they're not willing to take action, then the Coalition would change leadership at APRA.

Senator Bragg
Well, there's no problem with the law here. The law is very clear. So clearly if the law isn't being enforced, then you've got a problem.

Tom Connell
Andrew Bragg, appreciate your time. We'll, uh, we'll wish you a good break because a few days left of, uh, at least my year, and we'll talk again in 2025.

Senator Bragg
Thanks Tom. Merry Christmas.

[Ends]