Transcript - Interview with Chris O’Keefe on 2GB Drive

‍ [](https://www.2gb.com/exclusive- andrew-bragg-says-the-nationals-opposition-to-the-voice-is-premature/) ##### **Chris O'Keefe** One of those is Senator Andrew Bragg, who is on the line. Senator, it is a 'yes' for The Voice from you. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** G'day, Chris. I mean I've been a long-term supporter of The Voice concept, because I think it would improve people's lives on the ground, but also I think it's important for the country. I'm not giving a blank cheque though. I mean, the government has to do a better job of bringing together the whole game on The Voice. And also I want to see some of the legal risks addressed. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** But as it stands right now, as a concept, you would vote yes to enshrine The Voice in the Constitution. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Certainly I would vote yes on the concept, but I want to see the whole game come together, and I want to see the constitutional amendment go through a thorough review. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** But I don't understand this, with the Liberal Party. So in 2017, the Uluru Statement from the Heart, you had The Voice concept proposed then. That was under Malcolm Turnbull. It then goes to Cabinet. You would have stress tested at Cabinet under Malcolm Turnbull. Then it goes to Cabinet again under Scott Morrison. You would have stress tested all of these potential pitfalls and potholes under in that Cabinet process under Scott Morrison. You've done it twice. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Yeah well I mean, I came in, in 2019, and in my first speech I said I was a supporter of The Voice because I thought it would improve people's lives and I thought it was important for the whole country. But we can't have a situation where the government is going to ask the people for a new power in the Constitution, but not know how it wants to use it. So the government needs to do a better job here. They need to show the detail of how The Voice would actually work in a draft bill or a policy statement. And equally, as I say, we need to make sure the words that go into the Constitution are safe for our system of government, which has served Australia very well. I'm sure we can get there, but I want to see a decent fair dinkum process. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Do you worry, if this fails, what it does to reconciliation in Australia? ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** I think it would be a disaster for race relations in the country if the referendum was defeated. It's the last thing we want to see in this country. And I think you could forget about reconciliation if this was defeated. Because, look I know there are people who say that a lot of Indigenous people don't support this. But when I've been out to Western New South Wales, places like Walgett, Bourke and Brewarrina and I mean, sure, not everyone's an expert on the Uluru Statement, but everyone wants better engagement with government. Every Indigenous person I know says they want to have a better say on how government services are delivered, and that's what this is all about. So I think it's a very good idea, but we've got to get the process right in Canberra. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** So then what's wrong with my idea? Have a referendum for constitutional recognition for First Nations people and then legislate The Voice and see if it works. If it does, then put it into the Constitution. What's wrong with that? ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Yeah but The Voice is recognition. I mean, that's the recognition that the Indigenous leadership is asking for. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** But I'm saying split it up. I'm saying split it up so we don't have this racial divide around The Voice when everybody's arguing about the worthiness of Aboriginality through the process that Anthony Albanese is proposing. Rather have a simple recognition that Aboriginal people were here for tens of thousands of years in the preamble to the Australian Constitution and then legislate The Voice proposal. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** But the problem with that is that the preambular style recognition has been considered by constitutional conservatives to be very risky. And the reason that the non binding advice model, which is what The Voice is, was put forward, was in response to the concerns of constitutional conservatives. Now, I can't find an Indigenous person or many Indigenous people who believe in that preamble style recognition. Now, that was put on the table by John Howard fifteen years ago, but that's been subsumed and superseded by The Voice. So you want to put something forward that people actually want to see and something that's going to improve lives. It's got to be practical as well. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** What happens if Peter Dutton comes to the Liberal Party room when he decides to make his mind up and says, look, we're all voting no? What do you say? ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** [ _Laughs_ ] Well, I mean, the Liberal Party I think is big enough to withstand having different views. It is, after all, called the Liberal Party, and in the last three public votes we've had, including the aborted one on Local Government recognition, so the other ones have been Same-Sex Marriage and on the Republic. I mean, there's been yes and no campaigns inside the Liberal Party. So, I mean, I'd be very surprised if we went down a different path. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Do you think that the Australian people deserve some sort of clarity from Peter Dutton about what his position is? Because he's poking a lot of holes in it and not a lot of clarity? ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Yeah, and they'll get that. I'm very confident they'll get that. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Well, how bad are you going with David Littleproud, belts the cat first? ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Well, I mean, the Liberal Party, party room will make up its own mind. It's not linked to the National Party's decision. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** What I'm saying is Labor's got a position. The Greens are right now working on one, Lidia Thorpe or not. They're in Canberra right now in a meeting working out their position on The Voice. And the National Party has a position on The Voice, but the second biggest parliamentary block in the Federal Parliament doesn't have a position. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Well, I think it is still premature. I mean, I think all these judgements by non government parties are premature. I mean, the reality is that we've asked for more information. The government has said they will provide that. Peter Dutton has agreed to attend the next working group meeting. He's doing that. So it's too premature to see that debate come to a head, I think. And as I say, there's a tradition there of the Liberal Party not binding its Members and Senators and allowing different views to be heard. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** But certainly you're saying David Littleproud's decision and the National Party's decision to vote no is premature. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** I mean, I think that's right. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** That's a big statement from the Coalition partner, Andrew. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Well, no, I think the reality is that there's not enough information out there to make a judgement at this point. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Well, there's enough information for the National Party. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** I'm saying to you that I think judgements on this matter at this point are premature, and the government needs to provide some more information. But also we need to have a thorough process of reviewing the constitutional amendment so that we can be sure that it is a safe amendment for our system of government, which, as I say, has served our country very, very well. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** You were one of the key players in the success of the Same-Sex Marriage plebiscite. Do you think that the yes campaign in regards to The Voice is being undermined by the lack of action of Anthony Albanese in Alice Springs? ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Well, I think the issues in Alice Springs could be addressed by The Voice, and I think it's important that people see a connection between those events and a law reform or a constitutional reform in this case. So that has always been my view that people who have concerns about issues on the ground in remote Indigenous communities have got to have those addressed by The Voice. Otherwise, frankly, I think the whole agenda is in peril. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** And you are concerned about what that does to this country? ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Well, I mean, why would you put forward a concept that wasn't going to improve people's lives on the ground in places like Alice Springs? I mean, that's one of the main reasons this is needed, because there needs to be more community say over service delivery and rules and restrictions. Obviously, as far as I can see, the fact is that there would have been alcohol restrictions in place if the community leaders have been empowered to make the judgements. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Well, good on you. I appreciate it. Senator, thank you for coming on the program. ##### **Senator Andrew Bragg** Okay, thanks Chris. See you. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** This is Senator Andrew Bragg. ‍ **[ENDS]** ‍