Interview with Chris O’Keefe on 2gb 873

**Subjects:** Superannuation payouts ‍ **E &OE…** ‍ ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Now, I want to talk about superannuation. Have you ever had any problems with super after losing a loved one? Now, we've heard a few stories about this, but I just find this reprehensible that superannuation companies would do this to people while they're in the midst of grief. Because if you've lost your husband or wife or another family member, have you been able to access their superannuation funds without delays? Because some of the stories that are coming to light are just unbelievable. People who've lost their husbands or their wives, and they've got to process ridiculous volumes of paperwork, and in some cases are being asked to provide second or third death certificates to prove that the person is actually dead. How offensive is that? Now, it's taking months and months for people to get their payments. All the while, you're sitting there grieving the loss of a loved one. Seriously. The Australian Financial Complaints Authority, or AFCA, as they're called, they say that complaints over super delays have tripled in the last financial year because all the big superannuation providers, industry and retail, are failing here. So, 131 873, if you're in the same boat, I'd love to hear your story this afternoon. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** We've got to make sure we keep these superannuation companies accountable. You should not have to jump through hoops and wait months on end for these superannuation providers to process the death benefit, or in some cases, prove that a loved one has died. Well, my next guest is Linda Chapman. She lost a husband of 54 years, Brendan, at Christmas last year. Now, she didn't get any payment from AustralianSuper until she just got fed up with it and went to the media in an interview with Jonathan Lea at Sky News. Linda Chapman is on the line for us now. Good day, Linda. ##### **Linda Chapman** Good afternoon, Chris. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** First of all, my condolences, of course, for your loss of your husband, Brendan. How are you doing at the moment? ##### **Linda Chapman** I'm okay, thank you. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** What was that period like for you trying to get the superannuation payment? ##### **Linda Chapman** It was difficult. We actually had two separate superannuation policies. The first one only paid out in ten days without any hassles whatsoever. But AustralianSuper was nearly five months. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** What was it like to deal with AustralianSuper, Linda? ##### **Linda Chapman** They just wouldn't return phone calls and they kept on asking for more information. One stage they wanted my sons to sign a piece of paper saying that they weren't going to contest the Will. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Really? ##### **Linda Chapman** Yes. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Oh, Linda. How did you feel during that period? Were you getting frustrated? Were you getting sad? Were you getting angry? ##### **Linda Chapman** Well, I actually put the comment out on their page and they didn't reply to that. They just said, look, we'll look into it. But nothing ever happened. That was when Jonathan contacted me. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Were you in a position, do you think, where AustralianSuper was just trying to do whatever it could to hold on to Brendan's money, your husband's money? ##### **Linda Chapman** Definitely. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Was it a big sum? Without going into it, was it a big sum of money? ##### **Linda Chapman** Fairly good sum, yes. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Because the super funds, they like holding on to this stuff so they can trade and they earn fees off it and all the rest of it, don't they? For as long as it's in their accounts. ##### **Linda Chapman** Oh, yes. He'd only had two jobs in his life, 23 years in the Navy and the rest of the time working in security. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** So why do you think… So Colonial, they paid out pretty quick smart. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Fifteen days. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Well, Australian Super just dragged their feet. What do you think the reason for that was? ##### **Linda Chapman** Well, I actually asked them if they had a cash flow shortage, but I didn't get a reply. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Did they ever give you… Linda, you don't sound like someone you'd muck around with. Did you... Good on you. Did you ever get any explanation as to why it took so long? ##### **Linda Chapman** No. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** When you finally got the money, what did they say? Oh, here it is, go away. ##### **Linda Chapman** Well, I didn't get it. Jonathan did the interview with me on the Friday, and that was a TV interview. He evidently contacted them on the Monday morning and showed them what he was going to be putting to air. I had a phone call from one of their managers that day about lunchtime, and I had the money in my bank account that afternoon. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Jeez, that's ordinary, isn't it? Do you think that if you hadn't gone to Jonathan Lee and Sky News and done the media interview, Linda, you'd still be without this money that you're entitled to? ##### **Linda Chapman** I probably would be still waiting. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** What would be your parting words to AustralianSuper? ##### **Linda Chapman** Don't use them. I've already had a few friends have already dropped out of them. I've called their phones and gone elsewhere. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Well, Linda, I'm appreciative that you shared your story with us here because I'm sure there's lots and lots of people who've had similar experiences and they would have liked... They'll feel better that they're not alone. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the fact that you've jumped on and I'm thankful that you finally got the money and this thing is over, but it cannot continue like this. Thanks for sharing your story again, okay? Enjoy your Christmas. ##### **Linda Chapman** You're welcome. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Thank you. That's Linda Chapman, lost a husband of 51 years. Brendan, took five months to get Brendan's superannuation out of AustralianSuper. Why? Well, Andrew Bragg, he's a Senator for the Liberal Party, and he's been all across this. Senator Bragg, honestly, that is just an obscene story. ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, Chris, it's very sad to hear these stories. In fact, over the last year, there's been more than 1,400 complaints like this that have been made about major super funds and their insurers. This is becoming a systemic issue here, where the funds are hanging onto the money when people have met the criteria for the money to be released, often in the most difficult of circumstances. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** What's the justification being like from the super providers? Because I noticed you've had them in front of you at Senate Inquiries. What have they said? ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, the regulators have been lazy here, but the super funds themselves, I mean, they're doing what super funds do. The country has created these super funds. They are the only businesses in the country that open the door and the money just falls in and they treat everyone like a mug. And so they've been able to get away with it, one, because they have a culture of entitlement, but secondly, because the regulators haven't been on their tail. I guess the answer to your question, though, is they just shrug their shoulders and say, we don't care what anyone says or what anyone thinks. We'll just keep going. Now, what we really need is for the government, Stephen Jones and the Labor Government to step in here. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** What do you think? Is it a cash flow issue? Like Linda just told me that she suspected. ##### **Senator Bragg** No, it's not a cash flow issue. Every day, these super funds get money that falls in the door because of the compulsory nature of superannuation. These are highly liquid vehicles, and they have no shortage of cash. They just they would prefer to hold the money for longer so that they can have the money invested in the market. So it's really a greed issue. And it's a thing they do because they think they can get away with it because the regulators are so weak. So this is one of the reasons why we've been running a major Inquiry into ASIC, the corporate cop, because we believe that we need to get better outcomes for the Australian people here. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Hey, Andrew, just hang on the line there. I'm just speaking to Andrew Bragg, New South Wales Senator. I'm just getting people calling in. You might want to hear some of these stories. Gary is at Penrith. Hello, Gary. ##### **Linda Chapman** Yeah, good day, Chris. Thanks for taking my call. I've had some experience with this through a friend. The major issue here is that this is with Australian Super. In good faith, when you fill out your Superannuation forms, you say, Oh, 80% to my wife, 10 % to my kids, that thing, and you expect that to be honoured if you pass away suddenly. The issue is that they don't act on that. The trustees don't act on that unless you make it a nominated, beneficiary, nomination. They confirm that you have to renew every three years. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Sure. But, Gary, it shouldn't take five, six months. ##### **Gary** Well, the thing is, I think they have to try and find out if there's anybody else in the background. You could have filled out that form ten years ago, and then somebody's… They've moved on to another partner, and then that partner says, well, hang on, I've lived with him. I think that's where they're coming from. But what I'm saying is your average person thinks, look, that's what my nomination is. These people who are going to… My family members are going to get it as per my wishes, but they won't act on it because they're concerned that there might be somebody else in the background. That's why this is a nominated beneficiary form, which probably applies not only for AustralianSuper, is what you have to fill in every three years and update it if you want that money to be available. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** All right, Gary, I appreciate your call. Sally's at Winmalee. Sally, what's your story? ##### **Sally** Yes, my husband died in August, and I'm still waiting for one superannuation payment to start the pension, just like he had. I was his only beneficiary. I've had to produce things like my marriage certificate. And at fifty-two years of marriage, I just don't understand why that was. You send them forms, you don't hear anything, you ring up, Oh, no, we didn't get it. And if that is your only income, which particularly as a female, it's very distressing. If you have no other income and you are waiting for that pension, fortnightly pension to continue that he was getting. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Sally, can I ask what super fund your husband was with? ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Equip. Equip, okay. ##### **Sally** He had a Commonwealth Government one, which I received probably within two weeks with back pay. No problems whatsoever. This one, I'm still waiting. They're fussing about which bank account I wanted to go to. I said I want it the same as where my husband's was, which was the joint account. I don't know whether we can do that. We'll have to get back to you. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** All the time you're trying to grieve your husband of fifty-two years. Are you okay? ##### **Sally** It's hopeless. No, I have been so… I have no one to help me. I've sat here, I've cried. You can't get his name taken off the internet service. You have to close the internet and open another one in your name. You are dealing with this all the time. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Hey, Sally, hang there for a second. Senator Bragg, do you mind if we send Sally's details to you and your office and you can help her out? ##### **Senator Bragg** Yeah, look, definitely, Sally. We can help you out. I can talk to Equip. For any of the listeners, if they're living in New South Wales in particular, I'm very happy to talk to any of the funds that are dragging a chain on this. It's a systemic issue, and we want to make sure that people get paid on time. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Hey, Sally, I'll put you back over to the guys on the desk. Make sure you give us your details and I'll put you in touch with the Senator, okay? ##### **Sally** Thank you very much. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** No, you're very welcome. I hope you have an okay afternoon. That's just dreadful what they're doing to Sally and Senator Bragg, this doesn't look like it's just a couple of different little stories here and there. I noticed in that Senate Inquiry, the super funds are pretty quick to dismiss it. They just didn't look like they really cared about it all that much. ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, the financial complaints authority, AFCA, have just released data saying there's one thousand four hundred complaints in the last year about these issues. This is clearly a major issue. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** That's one thousand four hundred people who are grieving and being given the runaround. ##### **Senator Bragg** That's right. APRA at Senate Estimates last week and ASIC, who are the regulators here, and we've put them on notice that they need to move very quickly on this. ASIC say they know about it, but it's one thing to know about it. The main thing we want to see is them to be putting these trustees under enormous pressure to do the right thing here. Because as I say, Chris, there's no other industry that just opens the door when the money just falls in. These super funds are the most privileged organisations, and they need to pay these claims within a very reasonable period of time, which I would think would be weeks, not months. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** Senator, I appreciate you bringing this to everybody's attention. Keep fighting. We'll fight it on your behalf, and anything we can do will help out. But I'll make sure I send you Sally's details, okay? ##### **Senator Bragg** Please do and anyone else's. Thanks a lot, Chris. ##### **Chris O'Keefe** That's Senator Andrew Bragg. **[ENDS]** ‍