Interview on Sky News with Tom Connell

[](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRNEi4v-CXY) **Subjects:** Superannuation, Voice Referendum E&OE……… **Tom Connell** Welcome back. Well, there could be a large lobby group formed that will have more power than most. The big eight, as it could be called, of superannuation groups are looking to form a group. Question is how much power will they have? Joining me live is Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg. Thanks for your time. It would be a pretty powerful advocacy group. What did you make of reading this or learning of it today? **Senator Bragg** Well, they have an obligation in the law to only spend money on the best financial interests of members. I'm sure the regulator APRA will be looking very closely at the activities of this group. I mean, the problem for Labor is that it is basically a wholly owned subsidiary of the super funds and the unions. I think Labor itself has to be careful. **Tom Connell** But the group's allowed to form a committee; lobby people. I'm sure you've been lobbied. Lobbying is not illegal. So, nothing about that suggests they're spending money on things they shouldn't be, is it? **Senator Bragg** Well, how many other industries are compulsory? I mean, the question here is, are they spending the members' money wisely? And are they undertaking activities which are in accordance with their legal duties? **Tom Connell** In a broad sense, if they get more people into the fund, that benefits them. That can also benefit members. Size matters in super. So, if anything they're doing increases their membership or could be argued to, what's wrong with it, what they're doing? **Senator Bragg** It could, but I think the problem here is it's a government for vested interests. Basically, the unions and the super funds write the policies. I mean, I can't find a single Australian that can tell me that the objective of super is a major priority for them right now, but yet that's on the government's list of priorities. **Tom Connell** What are they writing? What policy are they writing here? **Senator Bragg** They're writing the policies to hermetically seal superannuation away from the people who actually own the money. **Tom Connell** Isn't it a case that you'd have to write a policy to change that? But the default was it's accessed only in retirement. They're not writing new policies saying don't buy a house with it. It was never launched to buy a house. It was never meant to buy a house when it was created. **Senator Bragg** Well, as you know, a lot of Australians are having trouble getting money per hardship access from super. **Senator Bragg** That's been well documented. And they're trying to stop future attempts to make the system more flexible for people, particularly for the zoomers and millennials who are struggling to get into the house market. **Tom Connell** Should it be easy to access your super, in particular, for mortgage payments? Because people are falling behind now. You can do it. I must admit, I don't know what the process is to step through it, but you're allowed to access it to pay off your mortgage for your home you live in. But you don't want people accessing it willy-nilly just to make their budget look a bit better. So how easy should that process be? **Senator Bragg** I'm not sure it's a good outcome to make everyone pay huge amounts of interest to a bank for 40 years and then get their super and pay off their mortgage. It may have worked well for the boomers, but I think for younger people, it's not always going to make sense to have such a rigid system. So, I think it should be more flexible to suit individual needs. I mean, we're not all the same. **Tom Connell** The size of this group, I mean, super funds are already a big institution, and they already have an impact on market investment decisions. Is that just the reality of what we have? Because we've got a system with huge super funds. I mean, it's good we have this pool of savings and there's debate around what we should do with it, they're always going to have impact. If that fund decides we don't want to invest in this and whether it be coal or other things, that's a market economy and that's how it works. **Senator Bragg** But this is not a real economy. This is forced savings into these vehicles where they charge high fees and their main agenda is to hermetically seal the money away from the people. **Tom Connell** High fees compared to the rest of the world, but not compared to their competitors. **Senator Bragg** All the funds are high fees compared to many other… **Tom Connell** But industry super funds, particularly on fees, have done better than the rest in Australia and when the returns are factored in as well. That's been the reality with industry super funds, hasn't it? **Senator Bragg** Well, my arguments are about the whole sector. I'm not getting into sectoral games here. **Tom Connell** Right. But that's true on industry super funds and has been. **Senator Bragg** I think if funds… **Tom Connell** Because you've singled them out more than others. **Senator Bragg** Well, that's because they have political links. I mean, Wayne Swan is the President of the Labor Party and the Cbus superfund. I mean, we discovered through FOI last week that he's promised $500 million of Cbus's money to the HAFF, the Housing and Australia Future Fund. Behind the scenes, they're putting in submissions to Treasury saying the HAFF is cactus. **Tom Connell** Okay, but they have done better than the others. Perhaps that doesn't suit part of the argument targeting industry super funds, but they have. **Senator Bragg** I don't have a problem with any particular fund. I'm pointing out that there are political links here that are not in the interests of the workers when they are putting the unions and the funds themselves before the people. **Tom Connell** Couple of other quick issues: the Voice, done and dusted? **Senator Bragg** Look, I think it's going to be difficult. **Tom Connell** Bit more than that, isn't it? On the polling, is there any path back? **Senator Bragg** I think it's been difficult for some time. And I think, unfortunately, the process and the product have not been developed in the way that was going to maximise success. That's well known to you. **Tom Connell** Are you uncomfortable with all your party's role in helping to cut it down? **Senator Bragg** I think you know that the government's process and their decision not to proceed with bipartisanship or to set up structures that could have maximized the centre ground is the major factor here. **Tom Connell** Okay, well, that's your comment on the government. What about the question I asked though? Are you uncomfortable with all your party's role in cutting down the voice? **Senator Bragg** No, because we have a position where backbenchers are free to act in accordance with their beliefs. **Tom Connell** Again, that's not really the question, though. The party leader, whomever else it might be, have been pretty strong on their criticism. Others have accused them of scare campaigns. Are you totally comfortable with everything that's happened on the Liberal side of the No campaign? **Senator Bragg** I think the main argument that's been made is that there has been a lack of detail, and I think that is true. **Tom Connell** But that's still not the question, though, is it? Are you totally comfortable with everything? The way the liberal elements of the No campaign have worked, are you totally comfortable with that? **Senator Bragg** I've made a practice not to comment on the statements that colleagues make, whether I'm in favour of them or not. **Tom Connell** You're commenting on the Yes side and where they're failing. Why won't you comment on the No side or any elements you might be uncomfortable with? **Senator Bragg** I think some of the No campaign commentary has been disgusting. And I think some of the way that the Yes campaign has profiled the issues has also been poor. So I'm not taking sides here. I'm saying to you… **Tom Connell** What's been disgusting about the No campaign? **Senator Bragg** Well I think some of the comments have—and I'm making the comments about people who are not in Parliament, people who are part of the broader campaign have been pretty disappointing. **Tom Connell** So not the ones from Parliament? Nobody from Parliament? **Senator Bragg** I think there are elements of the campaigns to fringe people who shouldn't have been involved with this. **Tom Connell** New South Wales Liberal Senate spot up for grabs. If you look at the makeup, two progressives, a centre-right, is the other one going to go to a conservative? ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, I can't comment on internal party matters. You know that. ##### **Tom Connell** What about the simple maths? If I need a bit of help with saying how that might be balanced. ##### **Senator Bragg** Well, I understand that you can count to four. That's very good. But I don't think that it's anything I can canvas publicly because we have very strict rules, and I don't think you want me to be expelled from my own party, do you? ##### **Tom Connell** I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. I'm not going to stop you. You're your own person. ##### **Senator Bragg** Yeah. I mean I'm not sure who's running yet so. ##### **Tom Connell** All right. Well, Andrew Bragg, thank you. **[Ends]**