Interview with Patricia Karvelas on ABC Radio National

Patricia Karvelas

Andrew Bragg has written a policy paper that he's released today. He's in the studio with me. Welcome back to breakfast.

Senator Andrew Bragg

Hey PK.

Patricia Karvelas

Got your mic on?

Senator Andrew Bragg

[laughs]

Patricia Karvelas

Unlike your party, you've strongly been in favour of the Voice for some time. So this isn't sort of new for you, but in your paper you've argued the Voice isn't simply a 'woke agenda', but that's the view within your party, right?

Senator Andrew Bragg

I think there's a lot of misinformation out there and that's why I wanted to combat that with this paper. At the end of the day, the Voice is about getting community level decisions made about service delivery, and that's a very conservative and liberal notion, community based decisions. And I think the misinformation is really hurting the agenda.

Patricia Karvelas

What other misinformation is concerning you that you've tried to address in your paper?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, there's this whole notion that this is the insertion of race into our legal and constitutional framework. That has always been there. And, of course, we have almost twenty different racial laws based on the powers vested in the Constitution from 1967 that are made for Indigenous people with no system at all to manage those laws. So this is really about reminding people about the starting point.

Patricia Karvelas

You're calling on the Albanese Government to release a Draft Bill so Australians will know how it will work, but we know it's the Parliament that will ultimately decide. And there isn't going to be a Draft Bill. They've been quite clear about that. There will be more information about what it looks like and the principles, but not a Draft Bill. Can you live with just more information?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, I welcome more information, but the most substantial thing I'm asking the Government to do is to put in place a proper parliamentary inquiry so we can examine the wording of the amendment. I think it would be much better if the Government had the inquiry before it introduced its constitutional alteration bill, because we want to have bipartisanship here. This referendum will not be successful unless a large group of Coalition voters, vote 'yes'.

Patricia Karvelas

Okay, so that parliamentary committee, could it happen where they introduced the Bill? And then there's often a little parliamentary process for a new Bill.

Senator Andrew Bragg

It's not the ideal scenario, because then that's the policy of the government being introduced into the Parliament. It'd be much better to try and maximise bipartisanship by having an inquiry before a Bill is introduced. I know these are technical points, but we want to try and maximise opportunities for bipartisanship here.

Patricia Karvelas

Realistically, can you really see Peter Dutton and some of your Liberal colleagues committing to a 'yes' vote?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, Peter Dutton has engaged constructively with this process. He met with a working group last week. He's meeting again with them on the 17th. So I think that is a sign of his good faith.

Patricia Karvelas

It is. But if you listen to his words, and I've listened incredibly closely, I don't hear any positive questions. They're all framed in the negative.

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, that's not a question for me. All I can say is...

Patricia Karvelas

No, but that's why I wonder, will he come on board?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, he's engaging with the process. I mean, I think he's taking it seriously. And my sense is that if this can connect the issues on the ground that are causing great trouble in this country and address them properly, then I think there's a good chance that people will support it, in my party.

Patricia Karvelas

You ran the 'yes' campaign for the Coalition on Marriage Equality. That was another issue the Liberals were divided on. What are the lessons for you that you'd like to bring into this process individually, and for your party?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, I think a lot of people who vote for the Coalition want more than just an emotional argument. They want to hear more of the detail. And I think the detail is important here, as Peter Dutton has said. So that is why getting the detail right on the legal risks which exist with the amendment and also the detail of how the bodies will work on the ground is so critical. And that is a lesson from the marriage campaign.

Patricia Karvelas

If your party decides to vote no, what will you do? Will you cross the floor?

Senator Andrew Bragg

I don't know. Let's see.

Patricia Karvelas

Will you cross the floor?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, I don't know. That's a hypothetical. I mean, my sense is that there has been a strong tradition in my party of not seeking to bind people on public votes. So on marriage, on the Republic, on the aborted Local Government referendum, these were free votes for the Liberals. The Liberals had 'yes' campaigns and 'no' campaigns. So I don't imagine people will be told how to think. That has long been my view. And also, I mean, even the Monarchists voted to have the referendum in 99. So I don't think anyone is seriously considering blocking the people say. I don't think that's a realistic proposition.

Patricia Karvelas

But your party is even blocking the sort of mechanics bill. You want a pamphlet and various other details. Why is that such a big deal?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Well, that's the machinery act that relates to all referenda. That's not about the Voice.

Patricia Karvelas

No.

Senator Andrew Bragg

But on the on the question of whether people would block having a referendum, I don't think that's being proposed at all. I think the question is whether or not people would vote 'yes' or 'no'.

Patricia Karvelas

So back to your paper that you've published today. Have you sent it to all your colleagues? Are you walking around the corridors giving it out?

Senator Andrew Bragg

Yes, that's happening.

Patricia Karvelas

Is it? Are you actually knocking on doors and saying, have a read of this?

Senator Andrew Bragg

There's an internal mail system here.

Patricia Karvelas

[laughs] Thank you for the update.

Senator Andrew Bragg

It's very efficient.

Patricia Karvelas

But are you ensuring that they all get it, and you're actively campaigning to get them on board.

Senator Andrew Bragg

Look, I think it's important that we combat some of the misinformation.

Patricia Karvelas

Thank you so much for your time.

Senator Andrew Bragg

Okay, thank you.

Patricia Karvelas

Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg there. ‍