Interview with Peter Fegan on 4BC Breakfast

Subjects: Retirement System Inquiry Hearing, Cbus

E&OE………

Peter Fegan

And joining me on the line is Senator Andrew Bragg. Senator, a very good morning to you.

Senator Bragg

Good morning, Peter. How are you?

Peter Fegan

I'm very well. Thanks for jumping on. I've taken great interest in this story. I think Australians should as well, Senator, because once again, we see a union-backed fund or a major corporation in this country taking the you know what out of Australians. And we have ASIC, which, okay, ASIC is going to do something about it, but Senator, we need to make sure that these big companies cop a bigger fine than just $50 million.

Senator Bragg

Well, the super funds are the most privileged companies. They open the door and the money falls in. And I'm very troubled that the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, has been running a protection racket for the Cbus super fund, which is the subject of these latest allegations. I mean, he has filed false claims in the Parliament about his engagement with Cbus, which is chaired by Wayne Swan, who's also President of the Labor Party.

Peter Fegan

And his mentor.

Senator Bragg

And his mentor. And that's a matter for Mr. Chalmers. But he shouldn't be running a protection racket in the office of the Treasurer for a fund that is clearly doing the wrong thing. So I really want the Treasurer to act in the public interest, not in the interest of the super funds and the Union.

Peter Fegan

I've always said that Jim Chalmers is quite a... I mean, I've backed him before. I think he's quite a good Treasurer. He's a Queenslander as well. I quite in fact, like Jim Chambers. But on this instance, I've got to be super critical of him, and I know that he's going to use the whole excuse of - it's before the courts. But, Senator, I don't know about you, but I'm a bit sick of hearing it. I would love to see a politician, particularly one in power, stand up and say, you know what, no I don't care that it's before the court. If this is proven true, then this is disgusting. Would you like to hear that?

Senator Bragg

Well, there's a whole lot of things he could be doing right now. I mean, firstly, he could be stopping the transaction between Cbus and the Housing Australia Future Fund, which is going to give them a special status. Now, the CFMEU have helped cause the housing disaster in Australia, so the Labor government shouldn't be going to the CFMEU and Cbus for housing help. Secondly, he could be looking at reviewing the governance arrangements for the super funds. It's ridiculous that the CFMEU still have three board seats on Cbus, and they own 21% of the fund. So he's been silent on all that, and then he's been silent on all the insurance issues. I mean, some people have had to produce two death certificates during a bereavement.

Peter Fegan

Two?

Senator Bragg

Scandalous.

Peter Fegan

You think about this, Senator. I mean, these are the people in the darkest moments of their lives having to fight some 10 months. Karen Redhead is one of those examples. She had to wait 10 months to try and get the money out of her husband's death.

Senator Bragg

Yeah. And Karen's story is one of many. And it's just so sad when people do the right thing, they pay their insurance premiums, they have a bereavement, and they can't get access to money to help to keep the family going. It is so cruel that these funds only exist, the super funds, by virtue of Canberra having legislated this system. So they're the most privileged organisations. So they have the highest duty of care, I would say, higher than an airline or a bank, because this is a compulsory system. So it is truly shocking.

Peter Fegan

They're dealing entirely in our money, and I think you're right. I think they should be held to the highest standards. I want to ask you this, Senator, we've seen a lot of Senate inquiries of late. I think the one in particular that really gets me is when the Senate took on Qantas and you had Alan Joyce sitting there like he'd done nothing wrong, with that level of smug. The same could be said about Woolworths as well. Do you expect that the hierarchy, particularly Wayne Swan, will even show up to this?

Senator Bragg

We've got Cbus' CEO coming today, so we'll be able to ask him about these issues. I'm not really interested in any sort of character assassination. I think the Treasurer has questions to answer because he's in the office, which could actually deliver some immediate changes here. But these hearings are about looking at how the super funds can do a better job by their members and also probing some of these integrity issues. Look, we'll see how it goes today. If it goes well with the CEO, we get the answers, then that's fine. We don't necessarily need to talk to Mr. Swan.

Peter Fegan

Yeah, but look, I still think that Wayne Swan should be there. I just said in some comments before speaking to you that he should be held responsible. But anyway, that's an argument for another day. It's 23 after 8. My guest this morning is Senator Andrew Bragg. We're talking about Cbus Super that will be taken to court by ASIC. It has slowly, I mean, it has not acted in the best interests of its customers, but 10,000 death and disability claims quick enough. I mean, this is huge. Labor is standing by Cbus Chairman and the ALP National President Wayne Swan. Were you at all surprised that that would be the case, Senator?

Senator Bragg

Well, not really. I don't know how he's going to maintain these two positions as being President of the Labor Party, but also the Chair of the Fund while it's going through these major issues. Now, they have one inquiry by APRA, the Prudential Regulator, which is looking at their engagement with the CFMEU, and they have another one now into these insurance claims. But ultimately, I think the Treasurer could institute a very quick and dirty governance review, and it could actually kick the CFMEU trustees off the board. So they're a big part of the problem here. How can it be that the Parliament can put the Union into administration, but that organisation still have to run a major super fund?

Peter Fegan

It's the 64 million dollar question, Senator. Here we have them condemning, and don't for one moment think that they're then condemning them off the back of their own fruition. This came through because of Nick McKenzie from Channel 9. I mean, he broke the story and all of a sudden, Labor went, oh, yeah, we better do something about this. So let's not for one moment think they're acting in the best interest.

Senator Bragg

Exactly right. So they all pretended this is also some revelation to them. Thank you to the media for exposing this. And then they're now pretending that it's all good with the Cbus fund being partially owned by the CFMEU. So they seem to be, they just want these issues to go away, but ultimately, because these funds have so much power and they're hurting people, the issues won't go away. So at some stage, Mr. Chalmers is going to have to turn his mind to this and do something.

Peter Fegan

Yeah, 100%. Hey, Senator, let's catch up maybe next week when we get some developments. Good on you for bringing this story to our attention, and thanks for jumping on the line. And as you mentioned, well done to those journalists at The Australian. This is a very, very important story, and we've got to stay on it.

Senator Bragg

Too right. Thanks, Peter. Cheers.

[Ends]